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I had a hard time finding anyone that carried anything BUT the compact version in the US, but the compact actually seemed to fit is average lengthed back quite nicely. It can be hard to order a new saddle without trying it first. A link to set a new password will be sent to your email address. [QUOTE=khorrapony;8269330] Anything narrower than a medium pinched and restricted shoulder movement, but finding something with a wide enough tree and enough wither clearance was a nightmare. But on your budget, consider the merits of investing in a shimmable correction pad. An old-style Bates Caprilli Dressage? Since the padding will be in your correction pad, youll have much more flexibility to add/subtract padding over time. Definitely invest in the ECP pad linked above as well! [QUOTE=jn4jenny;8266024] You will need to purchase the Silver Level or above. Definitely invest in the ECP pad linked above as well! Ive never found a saddle that fits her better than this T6. I have (stretched) a $500 budget. The narrow, high upward curve of the twist would mush my bits. It has nothing to do with tree angle. The Innova Mono+ is a great choice for the rider looking for the next level in performance, comfort, and adjustability. *Saddle fitting is not an exact science. Saddle trees vary from flat, which suits a lot of cob types to banana shaped trees for older and sway backed horses, in the middle is a standard tree, with a gentle curve. 88% sure this saddle was a MN. I own two thorowgoods but with the new price point creeping up to 900-1000 I dont think youll find one of the newer ones for $500. And yes, even if you have an adjustable gullet, that can be a huge asset. Air is captured at atmospheric pressure in an open-celled foam and sealed in the Air Panel. It is possible to have a horse that needs a wide tree width, but a narrow tree angle at the same time. All Bates Saddles come standard with a Medium gullet plate installed. Men have a distance between their seatbones of about 4" but women can vary from 4" to 8" and the wider apart your seatbones, the worse the problem becomes if the Twist is too narrow or high. To test, saddle up with the girth done up and run your hand from front to back under each side of the panels. Be warned though: its really too short for an 18" saddle, if you go in that. All site content is copyright of Saddle Central, Quality New and Used Saddles & Accessories For Sale, Saddle Fitting Guide for English Style Saddles. Horses are usually NOT symmetrical. When you add shims to the front of the padjudiciously, and with careyou can simulate the shape of a built-in, deep-front panel like the one on the Thorowgood High Wither models. Your personal data will be used to support your experience throughout this website and to manage access to your account. Ive never ridden in a synthetic saddle. The Bates Innova Mono+ dressage saddle features an advanced monoflap design, with a deep, open seat and luxuriously grippy lined leather for the ultimate close and comfy ride. But on your budget, consider the merits of investing in a shimmable correction pad. (To be fair, I could make similar comments about leather saddles.). I myself need a saddle with a wider twist, a shallow rise towards the pommel and a wider seat or I can't ride in it for very long! The numbers you entered don't match the image. Ill try to find a photo of Princess Mares back for context.[/QUOTE]. http://www.easychangefitsolution.com/easy-change-story.html (13/3/2017). Sufficient clearance of your horses wither across the width and length of the spine should be maintained at all times. The text book rule is that the lowest part of the seat should be the centre on the saddle. Its possible, but youd have to get very lucky, strike while the iron is hot, and probably not get a trial period. Need help fitting this saddle? The item you've selected was not added to your cart. A Bates Innova? High withers can extend way back into the area of the saddle. Used HDR close contcact- no wither clearance, too wide. The pony in this picture has a very short forward girth groove. How adaptable are the saddles for achieving an optimal fit?. Saddle fitter said theres not a thing wrong with it otherwise, and it fits my tricky horse perfectly. New saddle trials last for 5 days. My seatbones miss the seat altogether and are sitting on the ridge or with some saddles past the seat itself!! Saddle trees vary from flat, which suits a lot of cob types to banana shaped trees for older and sway backed horses, in the middle is a standard tree, with a gentle curve. This muscle damage is permanent. It is vital that you choose the right shape for your horse or the weight will not be carried evenly on his back. Join today and have access to 25 archive posts straight away. For this pony the girth straps would need to be attached to the saddle much further forwards to stop this happening. If your horse is developing these hollows, get a different saddle QUICKLY. View cart for details. The Size of a Walnut Does Equine Brain Size Matter? Run your hand between the horse and the panel of the saddle to check for even bearing. Meanwhile, the Instructor is shouting Keep your lower leg still but the rider cannot as it is impossible due to the stirrup bar position being too far forwards on the saddle. Flexi Contourblocs and Adjustable Ergonomic Stirrup Bars are both anatomically shaped and adjustable, so you can customize to fit your ideal riding position. Log in, http://www.easychangefitsolution.com/saddle_brands/wintec-saddles.html (13/3/2017), http://caircushionsystem.com/noflash.htm (13/3/2017), http://caircushionsystem.com/whatIsCAIR/index.htm (13/3/2017). Bates dressage saddle. Medium gullet plate is in now, and the MW came with it so Id bet Ill be swapping it out in a few months when she builds some muscle. This causes pressure on the soft female bits if the twist is too high or too hard. I know as I have this problem with a great many saddles!!! Then, paste the link for the photos into your post. Got it for $100 and loved the heck out of that thing. Women often have problems with saddles rubbing and putting pressure on the 'bits' that are unmentionable. You can find the odd used bates floating around for 500 every now and then. Way too wide, though I believe it was stamped a mw. Copyright 1995-2022 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. Oh man do I know your pain, though I had issues with having a big wide horse with highish, long withers. (Not sure if this is in the right place!). You must always choose a saddle that fits your own conformation in this area. I love Thorowgood And if youre one of those people thats picky about Synthetics, their leather brand is Kent & Masters I believe.[/QUOTE]. It is recommended that you seek professional advice on selecting the best saddle and fit to meet the unique needs of each horse and rider combination. ETA: Tricky horse is a TB with a shark fin wither, structurally massive shoulder, and short back. Ive never found a saddle that fits her better than this T6. Too wide. The shoulder blade would hit the front of the tree and the points and the horse would soon start evasions such as being reluctant to do sharp turns, resistance going into trot and canter, Pig-rooting etc. Saddle fitter said theres not a thing wrong with it otherwise, and it fits my tricky horse perfectly. The Twist of the saddle is the part of the seat that is the narrowest. Im leery of purchasing online after buying the HDR. Pictures would certainly help the general COTH rabble understand your situation. The tree angle must be the same as the angle of the horse's shoulder at a point 2 to 3 inches behind the rear edge of the shoulder blade. Oh man do I know your pain, though I had issues with having a big wide horse with highish, long withers. I love Thorowgood And if youre one of those people thats picky about Synthetics, their leather brand is Kent & Masters I believe. Consignment Saddlesnot included. Copyright 2019 Bates Australia. Youve gotta get em shipped from the UK even with international shipping you get them worlds cheaper than buying local. Just another vote for the Thorowgood! The saddle must be reflocked or a saddle cloth with pockets and shims used to balance out the unevenness. Is leather worth the money? It is vital that you choose the right shape for your horse or the weight will not be carried evenly on his back. They must not be at an angle either forwards or backwards when the girth is done up. Ill try to find a photo of Princess Mares back for context. In a perfect world, wed all like to have sufficient gussets support built right into our saddle. In order to check the clearance, bearing and balance of a saddle it is important that the saddle is initially positioned correctly. Should your saddle require further adjustments to your saddle, select the optimal combination of EASY-CHANGE Risers to achieve sufficient clearance, even bearing and perfect balance. Your bits are then crunched against the narrow or high twist and it is hell after 20 minutes or so. Wintec, thorowgood, bates. Lovely saddle.. Most people know that a saddle must have 2 to 3 fingers wither clearance at the top of the withers, with the rider on board but did you know that it also has to have at least 2 fingers distance all around the withers, at the sides as well? Tell me if the link works? Theyre easy care, legal to show in, and a reasonable value for what theyre offering. When you add shims to the front of the padjudiciously, and with careyou can simulate the shape of a built-in, deep-front panel like the one on the Thorowgood High Wither models. Thank you !! I purchased a medium Kincade dressage saddle- way too wide. Fabulous service thank you great communication, . This is determined by the shape of the tree from front to back. I wouldnt give up on finding one cheap. And how about round rib cages that spring out nearer the spine, or narro. Most of their saddles are built with a cut-away wither anyways. Anything is possible, I suppose, but that budget is really tight.[/QUOTE]. w, flat-sided rib cages that drop sharply away, and everything in between? You will then find it easy a miracle and your lower leg will be still as well. Be sure to select the Silver Level or above when purchasing your new saddle. If the saddle has a changeable gullet and it matches the wither tracing, adjustments should be made to the flock not the gullet bar. For synthetic, if you can get ahold of a Tekna S to try on, try that! Check the integrity of the tree points to which the gullets are screwed, and check the panels carefully for signs that a CAIR panel has gone flat or gotten bunchy because its shifted inside the panel. The girth points, when the saddle is positioned correctly on the horse should hang perpendicular to the ground when they are positioned to be in the girth groove of the horse. The girth points, when the saddle is positioned correctly on the horse should hang perpendicular to the ground when they are positioned to be in the girth groove of the horse. - eBay Money Back Guarantee - opens in a new window or tab. I own two thorowgoods but with the new price point creeping up to 900-1000 I dont think youll find one of the newer ones for $500. Even at Dover, I have to order it and wait 10 weeks, Powered by Discourse, best viewed with JavaScript enabled, https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/equine-comfort-products-cotton-correction-half-pad-11075, https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/equine-comfort-products-cotton-correction-half-pad-11075[/QUOTE]. The Tree width is the wideness of the tree at the front of the saddle, between the panels. The gullet must be wide enough not to interfere with the spinal processes or musculature of the horse's back (3-5 fingers), all the way from front to back. This is important as the back of the saddle will always be pushed by the larger shoulder to the side of the smaller shoulder and no matter how you ride, there is nothing you can do about it - unless you have the saddle re-fitted to that horse. Id like the T8 but its a bit expensive and hard to find here. The riser/shims, used to add depth to flat panels(between 2and 12 have been found in saddles). Looking across the spine, we can spot angular A-frame backs and smooth, flat and pudgy backs. To find this point, find where his hairlines come together in the area of his flank and draw a line straight up to his spine. It is the "Law of Gravity". [QUOTE=soloudinhere;8267784] Great Ebayer Superb item Express service Pleasure to do business 5*****, happy to buy again good communication between us. You guessed it, too wide. The rear of the panels should never sit behind the last rib of the horse when the saddle is in the correct position. Similar cut-back pommel to Kieffer and Passier with the added bonus of a changeable gullet. Then, we'll ship the saddle to you with the correct gullet plate and risers already installed, so you're ready to ride right out of the box! However some disciplines and saddle styles do require the balance to be a little forward or back for example an Australian stock saddle used on a horse that is working cattle with a low head carriage and therefore riding on the forehand will benefit from a further back balance point while a jump saddle has a balance point further forward to enable the rider to stay balanced in a forward jump position. If you cant get to the shop, they can ship saddles to you. Im just about to order a T4 now from Dover but would love to hear which websites youve discovered! The loins must never carry any weight as they are the weakest part of the back. I hope that this has been useful and that it helps you to understand saddle fitting criteria, to choose a good saddle for your horse and yourself. Since the padding will be in your correction pad, youll have much more flexibility to add/subtract padding over time. A Bates Isabell? Id expect to pay $300 for a 6 year old synthetic saddle. Both have high somewhat cut-back pommels, so work well with different height/length withers. Kieffer might be difficult to find in narrow (their standard is a medium that can be adjusted up or down a bit by a fitter), and IIRC Passiers tend to run narrow. Its easy to spot uphill and downhill backs. Ive had trouble getting adequate wither clearance on her. Learn more about earning points with eBay Mastercard, - eBay Return policy - opens in a new tab or window, - eBay Money Back Guarantee - opens in a new tab or window. FREE ground shipping for orders $75 & over. Realistically id like to stay under 400. Anything narrower than a medium pinched and restricted shoulder movement, but finding something with a wide enough tree and enough wither clearance was a nightmare. In that price range, I can definitely get a wintec or thorowgood. The pubic bone is also much lower in women than in men. Not to mention short backs and long backs (or, to be more accurate with saddle fitting, rib cages). If you are experiencing problems with shipping in checkout please contact us - sales@dutchessbridlesaddle.com. Nope, Ive found the trick to getting cheap thorowgoods. I recently purchased a 14 y/o Arabian mare. The saddle must then be checked with a rider on board and a second person runs their flat hand from top to bottom of the front of the tree under the front panels. This can be due to the rider, but is often due to the uneven shoulders. It really depends on the saddles age, how well its been cared for, and how hard it was ridden. There should be even pressure all the way along, not less in the middle, more in the middle, etc. Not Quite Classical Better Lungeing for the Rest of Us, An Unwelcome Side Effect: Transitional Vertebrae in Horses, Why I Now Believe My Warmblood Gelding Had the C6-C7 Problem Reader Story, By Popular Demand: Heres How You X-Ray for the C6-C7 Malformation, All You Need to Know About the Hidden C6-C7 Malformation Thats Bringing Horses Down, 5 Ways Your Seat Can Screw Up Your Horse Without You Even Noticing, Meet Spinalis, the Forgotten Muscle in Saddle Fitting, How The Anatomy Books (Unintentionally) Fail Us Over The Nuchal Ligament, The Crazy Logic of Saddle Fitting That You Probably Havent Thought About, 10 Ways to Seriously Mess Up When Buying a New Saddle, The Disturbing Truth About Neck Threadworms and Your Itchy Horse, How to Fight the Big Fight against Neck Threadworms, The Worm That Kills And Why Only Two Worming Chemicals Can Stop It, Why Thinking About Neck Threadworms Still Leaves Us Scratching Our Heads, Equine Lyme Disease Doesnt (Officially) Exist In Australia Heres How it Affected One NSW Horse, All You Need to Know About the New Biological War on Worms. If your saddle features the CAIR Cushion System its important that a rider sits in the saddle to check the bearing, as the air panels become dynamic under the riders weight. When you mention Saddle Fitting to many riders they only consider ONE thing, the angle of the tree at the front of the saddle which usually come in various sizes, narrow, medium, wide, extra-wide, etc. Foam panel insert, now renamed the EASY-Change Riser System. The wither tracings are from top to bottom: three fingers behind shoulder blade, lowest point of back, and top line. Bates /Wintec EASY-CHANGE Gullet System Gauge Correct Saddle Width Fitting Guide, {"modules":["unloadOptimization","bandwidthDetection"],"unloadOptimization":{"browsers":{"Firefox":true,"Chrome":true}},"bandwidthDetection":{"url":"https://ir.ebaystatic.com/cr/v/c1/thirtysevens.jpg","maxViews":4,"imgSize":37,"expiry":300000,"timeout":250}}. They can be gotten for as little as $200 (paid that for both of mine, though theyre a bit beaten up sound to ride in though). Call the Middleburg Tack Exchange. It is very narrow where my seatbones sit my seatbones would be wider than the seat in this area. (Includes Pictures of the Secret Flock Sock), Debunked: The Lie Thats Told About Adjustable Saddles. However, the following information can assist you in not only assessing your saddle fit, but understanding when simple adjustments should be made. Roly-Poly ponies almost always have a forward girth groove but its not only ponies, many quarter horses, arabs and warmbloods have a forward girth groove too. No problem Dutchess offers Virtual Saddle Fitting! Something went wrong. When your new saddle is delivered, you'll need to choose the correct gullet plate for your horse, and purchase either aComplete Gullet Kitor one or moreindividual gullet plates. The channel might actually be too wide though theyre seriously wide through the channel. (This rule does not apply to hoop tree saddles, they should sit very close to the horse.). Never have gotten to try any of the new Thorowgoods with the changeable gullet, but I had an old, narrow yet fat with highish withers Arabian mare who ONLY fit a specific old-style Thorowgood dressage. [/QUOTE], Really? This guide shows the 12 essential points to check for a correctly fitting saddle for both horse and rider. They are all sold as 'Wide' as the tree angles are the same but the bottom one has almost double the tree width between the top of the panels. The great part about them is theyre a synthetic that can be hosed off to clean, but look like leather even up close. If in doubt, get on Google Images and find us a similar picture. Seemingly the best fit, marginally too wide. Shes been sitting having babies for the past few years of her life, and therefore is largely lacking a top line, and the ability for me to fit a saddle to her! If the balance point of the saddle is too far forward the rider will feel like they are being tipped forward, if the balance point is too far back the rider will find they naturally sit in a chair position. Your saddle should bear evenly on your horses back, providing a close fit. Medium gullet plate is in now, and the MW came with it so Id bet Ill be swapping it out in a few months when she builds some muscle. For someone on your budget, the ECP cotton correction half pad is a good choice. Use tab to navigate through the menu items. In order to check the clearance, bearing and balance of the saddle, its important the saddle is initially positioned correctly. We have high withers, middling withers and rangy tabletops. For leather, look into an OLD Kieffer or Passier. On most gp saddles and some dressage saddles the stirrup bar is positioned too far forward and the rider is forced into a chair seat as a result. On a $500 budget, finding a used Thorowgood High Withereven the cheapest model, the T4is going to be a real chore. People wrongly assume that if you can get 3 fingers wither clearance with the rider on board then the saddle fits. Please see our fitting page to purchase this service along with purchasing your saddle. Normally in flatter seat saddles the seat size could be smaller than in a deep seat one for the same rider. Its possible, but youd have to get very lucky, strike while the iron is hot, and probably not get a trial period. Then the rider goes to trot and with every rise and fall the leg swings back and forward in an effort to stand with a stirrup which is not aligned. Many newer dressage saddles now feature extended stirrup bars as standard and a few brands have adjustable stirrup bars. The girth points can be moved on most sadddles, a fairly simple job for your saddler. Help is appreciated. On a $500 budget, finding a used Thorowgood High Withereven the cheapest model, the T4is going to be a real chore. I ended up getting a 2009 T6 High Wither for $300 because of some unattractive wear on the synthetic part of the flaps. The thorowgood high wither has caught my interest with the front gusset. And spines may have wide spinal processes or narrow ones. There should be an equal even pressure all the way down - not tighter at the top than the bottom or vice versa. On a wide shouldered horse the wide saddle in the centre would prevent all rotation. So many people have problems with saddles that constantly move forwards or backwards and many times this is due to the girth points being positioned either too far backwards or forwards on the saddle for that particular horse's girth groove. That's why we offer trials for all our saddles! Visit, The EASY-CHANGE Fit Solution is exclusive to. Ordered a seat size too large the first time around so exchanging for a smaller size now. You'll also need to assess the balance of the saddleif any Risers are needed to level the saddle and stabilize the seat, you'll need to purchase and install these as well. They exist, but Arabian would not be the breed I think of when I think of a narrow tree horse. Anything is possible, I suppose, but that budget is really tight. Not sure which model is right for you? What id REALLY like would be an interchangeable gullet system so I can adjust the saddle as she develops a top line. I honestly doubt that you will need a hi-wither model though. At this point I was just trying everything available to me. The Sprung Pelvis: Is it Worse in Ridden Horses? Virtual Saddle Fitting is non refundable. Please try again. They must not be at an angle either forwards or backwards when the girth is done up. https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/equine-comfort-products-cotton-correction-half-pad-11075[/QUOTE], http://s1025.photobucket.com/user/Jpondell/Mobile%20Uploads/story. How Much Do You CAIR Whats Inside Your Saddle? I wouldnt expect to pay $300 for one of the new ones with the new tree and surface blocks, for example. NB: Whilst the innovative EASY-CHANGE Fit Solution offers unsurpassed flexibility in achieving an optimal fit, no one saddle can claim to fit every horse. Check that the deepest part of the saddle is central and level to ensure perfect saddle balance. Very helpful folks. Various collegiate close contact saddles. But as usual, theyre only as good as the fit for horse and rider. The panel should be in full contact with the horse's back evenly all the way from front to back. Theyre also super comfy, unlike some have found the others listed above (though I find my Kieffer very comfy). This is before we even look at damaged backs, uneven shoulders, laterally curved spines, and all manner of physical issues affecting the horse, rider and the saddle in between. The saddle in the next photo would kill me!! Buy a saddle like the one on the right of the photo, NOT like the one on the left! This is very important and the main reason why some riders really struggle to attain the shoulder/hip/heel alignment and a quiet lower leg. For someone on your budget, the ECP cotton correction half pad is a good choice. The saddle will ALWAYS move to the position where the girth hangs vertically and in this case with this saddle, where the girthing points are too far back the saddle ends up on his shoulders!! I am in the process of ordering a T4 COMPACT GP as he also has a short back to go with his moderate wither. These hollows are caused by the death of the muscle fibres due to pressure and constant trapping between the shoulder blade and the tree. Need help? Paving the Way for Future Research a New ECVM Horse Register, 10 Rehab Tips for Horses with High-Low or Upright Hooves, A Pelvic Blow Out? If you want to do dressage at any level, make sure that the saddle you choose has the stirrup bar position far enough back for you to have a vertical stirrup leather when you are in the correct shoulder/hip/heel position. Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing. Was so sad it was too narrow for my current horse. I ended up getting a 2009 T6 High Wither for $300 because of some unattractive wear on the synthetic part of the flaps. This is one of the points of saddle fit that I see incorrectly fitted very often. http://www.caircushionsystem.com/faqs/index.htm, http://www.easychangefitsolution.com/easy-change_fit_solution/index.html, Debunked: The Lie Thats Told About Adjustable Gullet Saddles, The Horses Back Patreon Hits 100 Wonderful Posts And Here Are Their Titles, Beyond Sidebone: Pastern Pain and the Lateral Cartilage, Heres a Round Up of My Premature and Dysmature Foal Research, Yes, We Can Image for Transitional Vertebrae in Horses. The size of the seat must to be selected based on the weight and leg length of the rider and giving consideration to the saddle style, brand and model as well. [/QUOTE], No worries, I can easily ride in a 15 inch saddle. This is important as the back of the saddle will always be pushed by the larger shoulder to the side of the smaller shoulder and no matter how you ride, there is nothing you can do about it - unless you have the saddle re-fitted to that horse. This then lowers the sensitive bits down onto the saddle as the saddle seat falls away the lower down you go. Youve gotta get em shipped from the UK even with international shipping you get them worlds cheaper than buying local. Regency dressage saddle. The stirrups will always want to hang vertically. Most horses have one shoulder that is bigger than the other, just as we are right or left handed. In order to have shoulder/hip/heel alignment with these saddles the rider would have to bring the lower leg back but then the stirrup no longer hangs vertically, but slopes backwards as well. This is determined by the shape of the tree from front to back. Horses are usually NOT symmetrical. [QUOTE=The Blood Bay Mare;8267854] In our efforts to minimize your shipping cost we will contact you with your shipping rate after you purchase the saddle or send a trial inquiry. Once the air panel is welded the open-celled foam becomes irrelevant, as it is the air trapped in the panel, which is doing the work. In a perfect world, wed all like to have sufficient gussets support built right into our saddle. The rider should be able to place 3 fingers between their bum and the rear of the cantle, when sitting in his correct seat size saddle. This tree width is important as the horse must be able to rotate the shoulder backwards without the tree being in the way. Sometimes you get lucky and people dont know what they have, or theres something cosmetically wrong with the saddle that does not impact its function. [QUOTE=grayci;8266121] The flock sock is well-packed with balls of synthetic flocking. Stubben junp saddle?